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man they really did not hold back with the spawn camp, there's more respect even in my blitz games

Its in mythic plus as well its very bad there

increasing ilvl on honor gear would just mean R1/glad players will have an easier time monetizing carries.

Barrier to entry has been 0% since they removed resilience and pvp power and thats been removed since legion when pvp died

Theu are in mythics too

too much cc and running around pillar also pvp gear - i played pvp in bfa and shadowlands with pve gear. now its impossible.

maybe some default macros from top guilds, some top macros that are common in pvp, like suggested macros or something.

Everything he said about healers apply to me, as a <1700 healer, meaning that you may be so high up, that you do not see the pitfalls of smaller rating games.

Only cc i hate is stuns stuns do not dr 6 sec stun intto a 4 sec cheap shot is dumb

aslong as there is any cc i just wont play same with dmg reductions and class buffs just get rid of them

The last point is extremely relevant at lower levels when climbing the ladder and insanely frustrating. You don't XP it because you're not queing below 1800. The biggest key to getting out of the doldrums is win momentum (streaks of 4 wins or better). Going 0-6 or even 1-5 largely because of bad healer kills all momentum and progress. In other words, it's one step up, but then 2 steps. Add in the fact as a DPS you're waiting in Queue 20-30 min on Avg and sometimes even longer. The latter point is truly what makes it frustrating and borderline intolerable.

the moment i start to actually need to "sweat" to win a game in arena is where i always stop to play pvp xD

As someone who mainly raids for CE/M+ title and pvps around the 2200-2400 range, my biggest complaint is the sparks. If you're in any competitive guild there is no way you're crafting either of your pvp items until maybe 4-5+ weeks in. This pretty much forces you to play a 2nd character of the same class, or it gimps your pve gear from the lack of crafted gear you'll have access to early on. I'm sure it's possible to play without the crafted pvp gear, but as a caster playing without precog would be incredibly annoying/unfun to do.

I love pvp, but its two completely different games. Dif keybinds, dif ui, diff macros, etc. Arena 1 2 3, party 1 2 3 macros alone eat up most of your keybinds, not to mention targeting macros etc

It's not too complicated. It's highly IMBA. Certain classes/comps make PvP highly annoying.

There's nothing like Wow Vanilla Classic...

i played shadowlands and legion and the thing that turned me off from PvP was learning all the specs. I played mostly mid to high mythic+ and as a new player the road to improvement was simple and direct. You read a class guide and a dungeon guide and you're mostly set. I've only logged on to 3 classes in WoW...total...but I could see how being a good PvPer requires knowledge of all the classes...i didn't have a good way to go about learning that and even though I'm a bit of a tryhard I"m not going to read a wiki on every spell in the game.

Pvp gearing is needed because you need time to trick the main playerbase of collectors to enjoy your game mode whilst they chase the cool transmog they want. You have to lead them to it with a trail of breadcrumbs, trickling the appearances to them so they can see their progress instead of some unattainable 0-1800 mmr for someone who has never done pvp. You just need to fix the other gameplay problems to make pvp actually fun

I think the stacks take too long to build to be viable in M+

Too many systems and the fact you need 10 addons setup to do pvp. I got to 2200 in shadowlands after spending hours setting up addons, not worth the time for a trash system anyways to be honest.

Blizzard should take a page out of ffxiv playbook. In pvp, there’s roughly 17 spells. A handful are the same for each spec, utilities that is. A few are single button combos. Cc is almost non existent compared to wow. Honestly, easiest pvp to get into and it’s quite fun. I just don’t play it often cause I’d rather play with my guild in wow.

Battlegrounds queues aren't working how did you played?

retail was boring but i also heavily dislike the new bubbly ui i prefer old one. also my pc is shit. it lags too much in modern wow sadly lol...have to upgrade if i wanna try war within

few years back in legion i got put against Baj and spent the entire game chains of icing him and gripping him just because I knew I couldn't kill him but I could ruin his game. xD

its not just PvErs, I'd say im a mega PVP head. Used to play at a 2500 MMR level back in wotlk, Cata and quit in MoP. coming back is a complete headache. back in the day all you needed was gladius to really enjoy the game but now I feel like im fighting my UI and macros, and 99% of the time I lose before I even begin. I simply dont have the energy to even begin.

20 Buttons sounds about right

4:20, ill play pvp with 10 spells, no more than that, no macros, no keybinds, no addons, then ill play pvp

6 years in the future your praising legion pvp gear :-p

I feel like I prog so slowly, theres so much class, spec and general information you constantly have to stay up to date with, then theres the important stuff like watching for enemy and teammate cds, cc, drs and often experience gaps.

Don't know if already mentioned, but I think turning bg from only alliance vs horde to a 3 faction all against the other (ex green, gold and purple team with no faction restriction) could help a more fair balanced skill level and roles distribution (damn 1vs2-3 healer match). I'm happy about the ranked solo queue bg coming as a huge bg fan and i think what i wrote above can also help beginner (and not) players to gear up or learn new specs/classes without feel like wasting everyone time or being accused of and also with 3 "faction" playing the honor/conquest rewards can be leveled (the losing one don't get much now, and sometimes you happen to lose like 4-5 times in row) and upgraded more in preparation to join ranked bgs... or even just to chill doing pvp Sorry for my english P.S the only issue could be that bg were designed as two faction bgs, but they can still tweak a bit to insert new starting point for another team or just start implementing this on new ones (hoping they start to implement new bgs more frequently on a single expansion)

Ven I think it's common knowledge that Pikaboo is a sociopath and needs help. My brother and I regularly encountered him in the 1600 bracket when we were PVPing as an outlet for family issues. Did not need the him humiliating us on stream, taking selfies of us sapped behind him before he killed us. If he played any actual professional sport he would be banned for life for poor sportsman conduct. Further to, do you see Steph Curry playing college basketball? No. Because it would be boring for him and overall it would be poor sportsmanship. eSports should be held to the same standard as sports, it wastes our time (the people that belong in that bracket, because we now have to reacquire said rating) and it really shouldn't be worth the smurfs time either. In addition, it may be fun for the 1/1,000,000 that is doing the 'smurfing' because of some mental trauma they have... But unless those individuals are going to sub 1,000,000 accounts... It's not in Blizzard's best interest to cater to them.

Personally, another nail in the coffin for me is how druids hard counter mages. They got rid of hard counters a decade ago yet mages can still not poly druids and you still need to pvp talent poly to prevent it from healing. It's a ridiculous concept. That's like DK's never being able to be feared, they are technically undead, why can they be feared? If druid poly immunity was more of a 'Lichborne' ability I feel that would be a much better design.

I stopped PVPing and eventually unsubbed when they 'reworked' the talent trees in to the bloated cluster shit they are now. I was fine with the OG talent trees but I preferred the 15, 30, 45 etc tier choices of 3 options. It was easy to know, if a warrior's charge didn't stun you they probably had double charge. However, the current state of them is just a disaster.

Pve players are just scared to lose

pve you can choose difficulty, pvp has sweaty players everywhere.

The new dragonflight talents are 🗑️

22:06, the reason the gap is there is because they have so many tiers of content for pve, and that translate sover to PVP. why can't honor gear be 521ilvl? Oh because thats heroic, so we'll make that a grindy wpvp set, tne shoot way down to 515 for honor gear which is dumb. Thankfully we'll get pvp excusive sockets that you can put on honor gear. SEASONAL BATTLEPASS YES. PLEASE. GRIND HONOR TO GAIN BP LVLS

Battleground PvP is great. Arena is where these problems are felt the worst

20 is way too many

There should only be as many spells as there reasonable keys on your normal keyboard and mouse. Just the idea that you need a special mouse to play is nuts. Or long fingers so you can reach the second part of your keyboard.. You realize this in full after you have a break from the game and come back a year later: " oh wow how was i playing this!?"..

I miss open world pvp servers. It was part of the charm and made the world look more alive. Instead of enabling it via a menu option. Trying to get to horde or alliance controlled territory was the fun part. I don't really care for battlegrounds or ranking in general.

With the exception of necessary tracking functions handled by addons, I think a lot of these "problems" aren't and are fundamental to the uniqueness and tradition of WoW PvP. I know most people these days want to change things instead of doing something else or new, however, my opinion is that if you don't like it, play a different game. There are so many other MMOs, that have less abilities, equalized stats, participation rewards, battlepasses, etc. I mean, MOBAs and BRs are entire GENRES of games that follow those principles. WoW doesn't need to be. Also, FFS you don't need a guaranteed and deterministic reward for participating in everything you do, in every type of activity, in every game. Y'all need a dopamine detox. "Go touch grass"

I must say in regards to the gearing system, the amount of people who queue to Random BG's or Solo Q in their PvE gear with 5% versatility is kinda wild. The different 30% vers makes is insane to your survivability. PvE gear in PvP gear makes you hate the game mode.

Solo shuffles should be possible to get glad mount. Cause pve player like me doesnt have friends to do 3x3. And in solo you can practice and learn.

because PVP is dogshit full of cheaters and cc spam

Personally, I like PvP, I want to try PvP, but every time I queue or join a bg. It feels like the only reason I am PvPing is to get more PvP gear, which means I get to PvP, but die less. As a PvE'er. I want some kind of reward track that isn't just 1800 for Elite set and 2400 for mount. 2400 feels honestly unreachable for someone new to PvP in order to see the first "Reward" that you as a PvE'er might want. A more regular reward system or even a worthwhile amount of Gold to complete the weeklies would be nice. Short story: It feels like what you get out of PvP'ing, isn't worth the effort it takes to achieve for a new pvp player.

I think removing a few of the instant-cast micro cc's would be very healthy for retail pvp (ie demon hunter stun). It feels frustrating when you need to go thru the stun and juke the kick to be able to get a cast off - obviously precog helps but I think it is just a bandaid for this issue and doesnt deal with the bigger issue

For me as mostly a PvEr that dipped a bit into pvp (only like 1800 peak 3s lol) the main issue i struggled with was to feel that I was setting myself up to be able to improve and actually be good I had to completely revamp my binds+UI for pvp all the 123+target macros are so vastly superior to clicking on frames, once i'd have that set up it was okay but then I'd feel locked to pvp as jumping between was so much work, once I did this I'd just sit in 30min+ shuffle queues until I got bored and gave up.

you shouldnt need a special mouse to play wow. 10-15 buttons total, 4-5 in dps rotation, 4-5 utility, 1-2 movement, 1-2 defensives

remove half the spells for every spec, maybe 2/3rd of them and everyone would play wow